I am very relieved to finally show you the Sisters of EVE Battleship, the Nestor.

Should this ship get a covops cloak.

On the contrary, I'd appreciate a ship with very few turrets, but perhaps a +1 to number of drones controlled per Gallente BS skill, and a 250 mbit/sec bandwidth- then it'd be the first purely true drone boat.

Covops cloak basically gives you the ability to choose your fights, which is something battleships are supposed to be bad at.

They are good for roaming while playing a game of dota between jumps. You cant do that with smaller hulls.

Last, I'm seeing some complaints or concerns that it feels kind of all over the place. This is definitely intentional.

Oh and I'd like to reiterate how god awful ugly it is.

Smartbomb effects will have multicolored sparkles

I say we can reach 100 before Rise comments again.

Maybe the reason Rise stopped replying to this thread, is all the hostile comments he gets.

I believe he knew that most parts of this community are unable to voice criticism in a constructive way before he even took this job.

http://bakingbites.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/DSC_3568.jpg

I like it regardless- plus I use one of these to make omelettes
Mmm, space omelettes..

That's not entirely fair since he did make a change based on the feedback. It's just not as much as we would have liked. And to the miscilaneous bonuses, I think it's funny. Who knows maybe someone will see them and come up with a great idea. Creativity is a collision of ideas no matter how weird or far out. It's how you sift through it and impliment that matters.

1. ability to fit and utilize bastion module

I'm also worried about something that is deemed an exploit. I recall a thread once where dropping sentries and then running reps on them will get you in trouble, that this is bot-like behavior. This ship is absolutely PERFECT to do just that. But that can get you in trouble. It's like having a sports car in a country where you can't go fast anywhere, a vehicle designed to break "the law" but using it at it's best ability will be just that.

Wheres the shuttle bay?
The diagram shows it but I don't see a maintenance bay in the specsGǪ

So the ship is on sisi and it still looks ugly and has crap stats... what was the point of this thread?

After going over a lot of these options in detail (both initially and after reading feedback), we feel happy with the decision to go with a focus in logistics, low mass, and general versatility.

You might not be happy about the state of the Nestor (I'm not) but let's just be grateful that devs take the time to explain themselves here even when they don't have to, knowing full well that whatever they suggest will get picked apart by forum pvpers anyway.

It'd be absolutely fine, once prices stabilized, for it to have the current stats- however, that may take quite a while

A small update for you guys - going to adjust the warp Nestor's warp speed to match Battlecruiser warp speed rather than Battleship. That is a warp speed multiplier of 2.5 rather than 2.0.

This suggestion has come up a few times and it matches well with the extremely low mass and should be something that everyone is happy to have.

Well still can't think of a useful purpose for this ship.

Not alot of reason to use this in PvP. A Logi will be much cheaper, more survivable (sig/speed/range), and about on par for skills needed (yes they are op'd, but they are still a fact of the game). Sure the Nestor has massive base rep power, but it's still just a T1 BS which is so damn fat and slow that a Dread could probably hit it reliably. Why would I ever use a Nestor?

And for PvE it still doesn't make much sense. For missions, a Domi does the same job but better. And for exploration a T3/Stratios is faster, more maneuverable, covert cloaks, and is harder to scan out. So again, why use a Nestor?

Maybe a possible solution is to start adding in Hack/Relic stuff to missions? That way it could be useful there. Not saying that the Hack/Relic should be needed to complete the mission, just an added bonus on top. I don't know. Still just seems a massive waste of ISK for little actual benefit. Hopefully there is more to the Nestor that I am just not seeing.

That.

It SHOULD get a covert cloak though... A black ops ship with a covert cloak would be way more overpowered than a Nestor with a cloak.

To justify its price i would give it +1 drone per gallente BS skill level and cap the bandwith to 100Mbit/s.

Yes, but we have reached a point where it's hard to find a niche for new ships. And I can't see what's the advantage of this besides being pretty.

Do that and you accomplished nothing to add for the exploration niche. Trying to hide a battleship during travel is a stupid idea. Especially after the warp changes.

Guys, a problem alot of you are forgetting, the Nestor's cap life is horrid, worse then an abaddon. This ship needs a cap transfer bonus to be useful, or needs a better base cap, or a bonus to reduce amount of cap required for each repper

It's a 2 billion isk lossmail waiting to happen.

If not the covops cloak (I guess we can work around that one with a normal cloak), then what would make it worth the inevitable cost?

Eh, they shot for a power level equivalent to the other pirate battleships and they hit that mark pretty well.

Though the Rattler is overly cheap and has been since it's key PvE role has been taken over by the T1 Domi. (the Rattlers are currently so cheap I am considering buying 10 or 20 on the assumption they are likely to improve and go back up in price after the next balance)

To be fair the current Nestor stats are sort of in line with the 1.0 bill plus pirate ships .. not a 400 mill rattler. it just does not seem to be worth the 2 to 3 billion the LP costs are pointing towards.

I just realized how much the omni changes will help the Nestor- it'll be helpful

After testing the Nestor, I can say one thing:
At least it turns quickly.

Look at I this way CCP Rise/Fozzie, for publicity sake, you can introduce the SOE BS by saying "Introdcuing the Nestor - it's like a weak dominix that has scanning bonuses"

Or you could say something like: "introducing the first covert ops battleship in new eden... The SOE Nestor".

Now which do you think is the most exciting and has the better chance of increasing/keeping subscriptions?

I've been thinking lore, dangerous I know... What better way to provide non-capsuleer rescue operations than by carrying around a dry dock with you?

Maybe if I sell it all now I can at least get ISK out of them.

Guristas are going to get screwed so hard...

The one good thing about the Nestor would be that even if the Nestor completely fails as a ship, the SoE line is very well showcased by the Stratios, even if it does spend most of its time cloaked.

They do have a pretty good point about this ship not doing anything very well.

It already is one of the most agile BSs in New Eden and has a warp speed of 2.5 AU/s, the same speed as BCs. It will never and should never get a covops cloak for the multitude of reasons stated throughout the thread and unless you can offer a better reason that it should than 'I want, I want, I want,' stop trolling the thread with it.

Very well, I wont say anything more on covops cloaking since neither logic or reason based arguments are working. However, if anything new or interesting is suggested then I will be happy to discuss them with everyone as that is what these forums are for. Now if you will exuse me, I need to go patch that head sized dent in the wall.

By request I'm posting to say the ship isn't going to have any changes before 1.1

We want to see what activity looks like the way it is currently and make adjustments after. I'd also really like to look at finding ways to drop sisters ships outside of LP so that we can have some effect on the price in a way other than lowering the LP cost, but I'm not sure when we can get that figured out and implemented.

You guys have created an abomination.

lol .. you mean after they balance it to the point its ridiculously OP and then after the goons complain , nerf it so its worse than original :D

So long as at least one person likes it and at least one person hates it they can simply declare the feedback "mixed". Then they can go along with whatever they wanted to do anyway and also get kudos for being a Good(tm) company that Cares(tm) about their customers opinions.

Just like the Tempest ....

Calibration should be at 400. I'd like to put t2 rigs on my loot pinata.

5/5 mid/low layout is **** on the stratios
6/6 is **** on the nestor.

These ships are armor tankers that have unimpressive top-end dps that is compounded by a lack of lowslots for damage mods and a lack of drone projection bonuses. Now that the relative utility of omnis is going down too, the overabundance of midslots is a hindreance.

What they actually do is allow you to fit ECCM, cap booster and full tackle to augment the front-line brawler-pair role that this ship lends itself to. The only thing standing in the way of seeing this in practice is the silly price.

You're forgetting the fallacy of "sunk cost" syndrome. At that price they will think they're taking a loss so will hang on to the ship and use it themselves or store it until the next patch. The Nestor market will be quieter than a dusty town in a Spaghetti Western before a gunfight.

I farmed the LP to make my own. I just do not see many of these ships selling.

I think CCP stooges bought them all in the same way that a failing author might buy his own books...

I know it's not the greatest ship right now, but I really want to be able to give CCP some solid feedback so they can balance it properly over the next few patches.

This is hilarious considering so many posters from all areas and activities have stated how underwhelming it is.

Sure looks prurty in flight though.

The Nestor is really, really bad.....

Actually it has very good RR potential. And most RR gangs use Sentries at least all the Vexor/Domi RR fleets ive ever done have. (this is due to RR mods taking up the highslots on ships vOv)

**** no. Why would anyone buy a ship less than a month after its release. Thats just asking to pay like 200% markup cuz of scarcity and "new hotness" value. Ill get a few in a couple months. Provide CCP doesn't chunk all over it before then.

You'll have to pay the price if you want the advice.

Well no ****. No one is going to pay 1B for a fit they can figure out themselves in EFT. It shouldn't be to hard for people to figure out how to fit one tbh.

Ill make you a special offer though for this limit time only I will provide you with the DPS fit, and the Tank Fit for the low price of 500M.

That is a terrible fit.

^ See, Just like that. Nestor will be worth around 800K when all is said and done...because "balance".

Agreed. I pay 400 for a stratios because it's a little different to your run-of-the-mill covert T3 and does roughly the same job for roughly the same money.

I have always maintained that for me the Nestor's clearing price is 450m. On reflection, that's too high - it's not as valuable as a stratios to me - and I am someone who tries to think of creative ways to use ships that no-one likes.

Amarr bonus: 100% bonus to the effect radius of smartbombs per level
Gallente Bonus: 50% bonus to RoF of FoF missiles. Now put them in a spider-tanked blob...
:-)

You haven't thought that far out of the box if you think any of the above 3 points are incorrect.

They will not go down, unless the smaller ships get a huge nerf.

Overall, the Nestor feels fairly balanced now. It's a decent ship, just not worth the current price (which isn't controlled by CCP, and I assume is going to go down over time).

the ships need really some love, the same for astero and stratios too. The nestor costs 1.5 bil isk and is not better than a dominix. A dominix cost less than 10% of a nestor and does it better.

Once the drone region drops start, and the BPCs aren't reliant on the LP store, I expect we'll see the price on the Nestor change drastically.

Now the reason why it is essential.

I'd pay a billion for THAT!

I agree it really does feel like manoeuvring a large white whale, you would expect it to feel more like a large battlecruiser,and the lightest mass, which would make it useful in wormholes, is unfortunately, like wheels on a fish, because without being able to warp cloaked it will never live there.

So the idea, of wherever it was designed for, has apparently been lost in time, I like the astero and Stratios, even though the stratios is a little confused, and i think it has lost some of it's original purity of concept it is still a good ship, but the Nestor is just plain lost.

So where to go from here?

I tried to fit a laser build at one point but gave up on it after a few tries, just like my attempt at making a hacking/analyzing fit. Since the Nestor doesn't have any speed or manuverability, it has almost no way to dictate distance and take advantage of the optimal range bonus. You could use a MJD but you're limited by the long cooldown, it's barely worth the effort. I've brought up this weakness before, but the ship has bigger issues elsewhere.

You have other options anyways, during my test builds I've been using hybrid drone/logistics builds. They offer more dynamic options in combat, and don't strain the cap you could be using to RR with.

[On a battleship, it really is a different story...

As it stands Nestor isn't just unpopular in holes.
Its not popular at all. Its not a good ship, there is nothing about it that earn the pirate battleship title.

Still time for CCP Rise to read all the arguments on all the threads, and realise that this is going nowhere fast.

Arthur what do you make of this idea, really going for a pure resolution for the fatal flaw of the nestor in wormhole space, not enough on it's own but should at least make it useable in wormhole space.

Been thinking on this and trying to find a solution to the problem in wormholes without adding any power whatsoever. It should defuse the argument as to whether it could be done.

Read it all please and take a second to think it through.

Do NOT allow the covert ops to be fitted but instead build the following into the ship.

When the ship is in warp it warps cloaked

but it should be exactly the same as at the moment, as in it has to be uncloaked to activate warp and uncloaks when coming out of warp and arriving.

So this solves the problem of being uncloaked on dscan when transiting a system while adding exactly zero to its combat capabilities.

This would allow it to be used in wormhole space. And no one could possibly call it overpowered.

I still believe that the covert ops on this ship would also not make it out of balance, but solving the fatal flaw of this ship is more important.

I've got to admit, you make good points, not sure about a clone vat bay, but it is an interesting feature but even with that it will never leave the POS, I am glad you see the lack of an ability to warp cloaked is a fatal flaw too, seems that you need to have experience of wormholes to see how serious an issue that is.

I am still at a loss as to why a pirate ship is specified like a t1 ship, I have tried to understand, but I just don't get it, i wonder if this was specced before the tiercide buffs on other ships and just tweaked in a minor faction.because i am also at a loss to see how this is better than a dominix apart from minor functions. And the low mass is simply irrelevant if it can't leave the home system. In fact the domi's higher mass will at least help it roll holes.

So overall, In fact since the recent work on omnidirectionals the dominix seems a better ship?? As it stands I see no reason why you wouldn't use a dedicated logi with a domi gang if you are never going outside your home system?

Just wierd.

So value point is somewhat less than a t1 ship, now that just makes no sense at all, some people are really going to lose money on this like never before. They must be praying that it gets saved somehow from being totally mediocre.
But in it's favour, it is a nice paint finish, white looks good on it.

So sad.......